For each question, answer the question completely using proper English and make sure to proofread! You must also respond to at least one other student post to receive full credit.
Sunday, July 5, 2009
Chapter Eight-Numbering: "How Many, How Many?"
According to Faust, why was counting the dead such an important task? Do agree with her assertion? Why or why not?
"Counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war."(250) Naming all the dead was a nearly impossible task. Counting was not much easier but it is the closest they could get to honoring all the dead. In the south, soldiers were counted "...both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy."(259) Counting was important to them. It told "...the story of 'how well [their unit had] stood'..."(259) The numbers could explain things to the people that would otherwise be incomprehensible. The “...North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain."(259) Counting showed respect to the dead. I do agree with Faust's assertion. There were people who never knew what happened to their loved ones. The numbers gave the people in both the north and the south some comfort. "Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be."(260)
According to Faust, counting the dead was important because it showed a respect for those who had given their lives for their country. “States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain. A name upon a list was like a name upon a grave, a repository of memory, a gesture of immortality for those who had made the supreme sacrifice”. [259] I do agree with Faust. Because of what these men gave for their country, all that many of them received in return was a grave marked: Unknown. “and most important, how many gravestones carried ‘the significant word Unknown’”. [262] The rosters at least allowed the men to be recognized for what they had given for their country even if they had not received a properly marked grave, their name will be able to live for many years to come.
Jamie touched a very important point in her answer to this question. Why were the numbers a comfort to the thousands of women who had lost their relations? Jamie stated that “The numbers gave the people in both the North and the South some comfort”. This was in fact what Reverend Cross was speaking about in his sermon on mourning. “Sympathy divides the sorrow, and leaves but half the load”. [166] Though these women may have lived across the country from each other, they still had the comfort in knowing that they were not alone in suffering the loss of a missing loved one. They knew that though they may be alone in their home, other women were suffering the same loss. The numbers showed that.
According to Faust, there are several reasons that counting the dead was so important. She said that, “Joseph Jones counted soldiers and their deaths both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy.” [pg. 259] Some Regimental Commanders “counted to tell the story of “how well [their unit had] stood” and to be remembered among those whose losses, and thus whose courage was greatest.” [pg. 259] I agree with Faust when she states both of these comments. I think that Joseph Jones’ reason for counting the slain is a good one. Many Confederate soldiers could not be identified, thus if people counted them as dead, they sort of got part of that identity back. As she said here, “A name upon a list was like a name upon a grave…” Identity is also a large part of the Regimental Commanders reasoning for counting the dead. By counting the dead in regiments, it gave the soldiers that did not get identified, an identity. It made it so citizens knew who fought for which regiment. I strongly agree with Faust and her comments here.
In response to McKenzie Hamilton: I agree with McKenzie’s comment as stated in this quote, “I do agree with Faust. Because of what these men gave for their country, all that many of them received in return was a grave marked: Unknown. “and most important, how many gravestones carried ‘the significant word Unknown.’” [262] The rosters at least allowed the men to be recognized for what they had given for their country even if they had not received a properly marked grave, their name will be able to live for many years to come.” She makes an excellent point in saying that even if a grave was marked “unknown,” the person lying there still could have an identity, and be remembered on the total death list. It had to be comforting for a family to see their fallen soldier’s name on this list. It offered closure to them, and made sure that the hero that died for his country, was never forgotten.
Faust thinks that counting the dead was such an important task because it showed how much each side suffered, losing many. It showed how out numbered the Confederates were and how lucky the North was in not losing as many soldiers as the South. I agree with Faust because I think it would help when they announced the deceased for each side, because it would tell the widows they are not alone and other women are suffering the same way they are.
Counting was an important task for many reasons. Counting could “demonstrate southern valor” and “explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy.” Regimental commanders counted to tell the story of how well [their unit had] stood and to be remembered among those whose losses, and thus courage, was greatest.” (p. 259) “They counted to establish the dimensions of the war’s sacrifice and the price of freedom and national unity. They counted because numbers offered an illusion of certitude and control in the aftermath of a conflict that had transformed the apparent limits of human brutality. They counted, too, because there were just so many bodies to count. Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost.” (p. 260) Also, “States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain. A name upon a list was like a name upon a grave, a repository of memory, a gesture of immortality…” (p. 259) I agree with her assertion: counting is important. It shows the true scale of the war and how both sides suffered enormously. When an unknown soldier is counted among the dead, the soldier is not simply a decaying object in a field anymore. He has become a part of a list, part of something larger. The soldier may not have a reminder dedicated to him, but his name will show what he sacrificed.
Response to Austin Parr I do not really agree with everything you said. How could a number give a person an identity? I think the numbers gave comfort to those at home. Some people never knew what happened to their son and so the numbers helped them let go a little. They would always wonder, but those numbers helped them think maybe their soldier was one of those thousands.
Counting the dead was a way to grasp a loss far too great to comprehend. “ ‘ It is easy to imagine one man killed; or ten men killed… but even… [the veteran] is unable to comprehend the meaning of the one hundred thousand’”(261) soldiers lost. People would go on living their lives after the war knowing the number of dead soldiers, but not understanding that “ these were not cold abstractions but numbers that literally … possessed a human face.” (260) Faust also talks about the unknown soldiers, “ the hundreds of thousands of Civil War dead who remained unnamed could at least be counted. Names might be unknown but numbers need not be.” (259-260). The numbers were a comfort to the people of a torn nation for they were something certain in a world of unthinkable loss.
I agree with Faust that the loss was something that most could not comprehend. And in trying to make sense of their loss, the number of deaths helped them realize something along the lines of, wow that is like everyone in my whole town, and the town down the road, and the town after that, all dying. It gave them some common knowledge, something to compare their losses to, and maybe begin to understand all that had been lost in that dreadful war.
Counting the dead had many different reasons behind it. Military reasons for counting the dead during the war included knowing a general’s strength as well as their enemy’s. “Counting the dead had been largely an issue of assessing military resources, of seeing who was left alive to fight (252).” However, after the war ended purpose for counting the dead changed. It became documentation to respect and honor the dead. “Joseph Jones counted soldiers and their deaths both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of their hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy (259).” “States in both the North and the South enumerated the dead to honor the slain. A name upon a list was like a name upon a grave, a repository of memory, a gesture of immortality for those who had made the supreme sacrifice (259).” I agree with Faust’s statements made about counting the dead. It honored the fallen who sacrificed themselves for what they believed in. It also respectfully united all the dead; even if their bodies were never recovered they were remembered.
In response to Blake N: “They counted because numbers offered an illusion of certitude and control in the aftermath of a conflict that had transformed the apparent limits of human brutality. They counted, too, because there were just so many bodies to count. Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost (260).” I agree with Blake N. that counting the dead not only showed respect but showed the true magnitude and scale of death. This enormous factor affected the whole country leaving no one untouched by the war. The scale was so massive it was almost incomprehensible and was still being calculated well into the 1900’s.
According to Faust, counting the dead was important to show their gratitude to those who had died serving their country. As the numbers of the dead were being counted many "Americans speculated about what the umbers they so eagerly amassed acutally meant. Joseph Jones counted soldiers and their deaths both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy."(159) "States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain." There were many reasons that counting the dead was very important to the nation back then. "They counted to establish the dimensions of the war's sacrifice and the price of freedome and national unity." (160) "Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war." The reason for counting was to solve the problems of understanding. I agree with Faust because even today during a war many people are very interested in the amount of casualties and deaths.
I agree that a big reason for the numbers was to make everyone feel like they aren't alone. With the big numbers the widows could vent with other widows. Every single person in our nation suffered a loss during that time. I believe at the cost of thousands of soldiers that this event brought our nation together and made it be the nation we are today.
After the war had ended the final death tolls totaled in at 360,222 for the Union army, and around 258,000 for the Confederate army, those numbers are big now, but were even bigger back then. Faust believed that counting the dead was important because it “helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.” (250) She thought counting the dead was important because it made people focus not only on who they knew that died, but everyone who had died in the war. Faust also believed that counting the dead “seemed about the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost.” (260) Numbers provided an understanding to everyone of how much death really happened in the war. I agree with Faust on the importance of counting the dead. I think it was important for Americans at the time to open their eyes to all the destruction they caused, and to stop viewing the war’s deaths as only those who they knew, but instead view the war’s deaths as everyone who had died. By counting the dead it put deaths into a perspective Americans at the time wouldn’t have comprehended otherwise, and allowed them to truly grasp the war’s results.
"Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead." A death may have created sorrow throughout a community, but a number of deaths multiplied that sorrow across many communities. It provided a means for grasping the broadness of death on such a large scale. Saying that many soldiers died in the war is not nearly as dramatic as saying that over 600,000 soldiers died in the war. When humans are not given an actual number, they naturally tend to think of it as less than it really was. Stating a concrete number can help combat this and allow humans to be able to really grasp what it was like. "Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost.
Response to Evan: I agree with you when you say that counting is a way of honoring the lives of dead soldiers. Counting shows that they did not die alone and they did not die in vain. Soldiers must have been fighting for a worthy cause to lay down their life for it. The cause must have been extremely worthy for 600,000 soldiers to lay down their lives for it. The larger the number, the more noble the cause. Counting the Civil War dead magnified the morality of the cause for which they died.
The question of “How Many?” was not uncommon. The answer was 618,000, yet 618,000 was so much more than a number. It told “the story of ‘how well [their unit had] stood’,” (pg 259). It told “whose courage… was greatest,” (pg 259). Most importantly, it did, for those who dared, allowed man to grasp the numbers. It gave an idea of what really happened and the sorrows that came along with it on a much larger scale. Faust suggested that acknowledgement of their existence was the least that anybody could do to honor the fallen. I think dying for your country is one of the boldest, most honorable things anybody could ever do, and every individual who dies for their country has to be acknowledged, regardless of how many others died with them, and, I agree, counting is the least that anybody could do.
The death toll during the Civil War was so high that it was hard to establish a number. Faust believed, “They counted to establish the dimensions of the war’s sacrifice and the price of freedom and national unity.” (260) Faust believed it was important that America realized how many people died during the Civil War because they could see how much the country had paid for the war not only in money but in humans as well. However it was hard for all the fallen soldiers to be counted and identified. I agree that it was important to count the dead after the war. It gave people then and now a better idea of how much the war cost us. A lot of soldiers risked their life fighting for what they believed was right. No matter what side they were on I think they deserved to be known and honored.
I agree with your statement that “it was important for Americans at the time to open their eyes,” and “stop viewing the war’s deaths as only those who they knew, but instead view the war’s deaths as everyone who had died.” People tend to only focus on things that pertain to them, in this case it would be the death of someone in the family. However, it can be helpful to know that thousands of other families are in the same position. It is also valuable in helping Americans understand just how much blood was shed during the war.
“Counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation. Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead. It was not just a count of the dead but an accounting for the death’s impact (250).” Since there were so many people dead, there was sometimes no way even to count them, let alone to give them names. It helped people understand the magnitude of death and how much so many people were willing to give up. Counting the dead also provided a statistic for people to better grasp the amount of loss. “Numbers became a language in which to express and assess battle’s challenge and achievements (253).” Officers during the war also used the numbers as a defense mechanism. They might purposefully undercount the amount of dead to make the enemy more confident, when really, they might be outnumbered. I agree with Faust, but then again I disagree with Faust (saying how significant counting casualties was). I agree with her because if an officer knew he had more than he said he did, he knew he had the higher ground. So counting the dead in that way was a very important strategy. I disagree with her on the significance for the people because a) they are already mourning so why make it worse, and b) they were already in the highest point in mourning, so if you added something more to mourn about, they are already at their highest amount of mourning, so the numbers either roll off their shoulders or just elongate the amount of time spent mourning.
“Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.” (250) According to Faust, “counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war.” (250) Decades later, people would want to know how many soldiers gave their life during the war. People needed to understand how many people died because of the war and how this overall affected our country. “Statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension. Their provision of seemingly objective knowledge promised a foundation for control n a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable.” (251) For military reasons, counting would show the strength or weakness of the enemy during the war. However, was the war finished, the numbers showed the overall devastation that war caused. “States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain.” (259) Overall, I agree with all of Faust’s statements relating to the importance of counting the dead. Counting honored all the soldiers that were not identified. Without counting, we may never have known how many soldiers sacrificed their lives for the war.
I agree that “counting honored all soldiers were not identified.” I agree that counting was necessary because if we didn’t, “we may have never known how many soldiers sacrificed their lives for the war.” My only question is why would it be so important for the average civilian to document the number of fatalities? I’m sure that it would be nice to start to get an idea of what really happened, but I don’t think that a number would be the best way to describe the sacrifices that have been made for your country. Honestly, I think that I could’ve gotten along just fine without 618,000 being a part of my education on the Civil War. I understand how it could be useful to the military, but that number is way too big for me to fully understand, and I think it is sort of unnecessary in that context.
Response to Cameron Whiteside: You asked, "why would it be so important for the average civilian to document the number of fatalities?" I agree with your response that, "I don’t think that a number would be the best way to describe the sacrifices that have been made for your country." But I believe without the identification of soldiers, a number is the only way to fully comprehend how many people gave their life for the Civil War. I also agree that the number, "is way too big for me to fully understand," but without it, would you still comprehend how many people gave their lives?
Response to Kaylie: I agree with the point in your post that humans tend to downsize events when numbers aren’t given. I think naturally humans just don’t picture the bad right away; we try to find the good in everything before looking at the facts. I also think that because of that trait, numbers and counting the dead were of extreme importance after the Civil War. Americans at the time needed a number to fully understand how many deaths occurred. Without a number for the dead, people would have continued their habit of downsizing the bad, and underestimated how many soldiers really did die.
Faust believed it was important to count the dead as a show of respect for the dead soldiers. Although, in those times math was not always taught in school so it was hard for many people. " Americans North and South, in official capacities and as private citizens, proliferated enumerations of the war dead but remained far from establishing a definitive count." (pg 259)I'm not completely sure what to think of Faust's idea of their counting. It may have been a valient effort and I'm sure many civilians were happy to have found their dead loved ones to give them an honorable burial but they never could have completley succeeded not only because of some poor educations but also becuase of the many many many deaths of the war. There was probably many lost bodies, never found in the battlefields.
"In face of inadequacy of words, counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation." With these words, Faust explains why counting was so important. The people counted because it helped them to understand how much suffering there was, and so they could, even without knowing people, relate to them through their grief. They counted because it helped them to understand the extent of the carnage the war had ravaged. It was easier to count the dead than to try to name the dead. But by counting, they still honored the dead, even if they couldn't name them all. Faust thought it was important an important task to count the dead because it "helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead." People focused less on their individual sorrows and grief, and turned to national grief for all of the dead. I agree with Faust because counting helped people to focus on something other than their own personal grief. Counting also helped the nation understand the severity of losses, as well as how destructive the war was. I think that by counting the dead, the nation understood that we should never have to go throught that kind of suffering again, for any reason. It was important to count, so it wouldn't happen again.
Response to McKenzie: I agree with your statement that counting showed the dead the respect they needed, even if they couldn't be named. They fought for their country, and died in the process, so they needed to be honored. Even if they couldn't be identified, the graves were still marked with the name "unknown" and their memory continued to live on. I totally agree with you on that one.
Faust asserts that counting the dead was a way to honor slain soldiers - "States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain" (259) - and a way for their families to deal with grief. "A figure might begin to grasp the entirety of so many dead and communicate the enormity of war's toll" (259). Providing numbers was the only way for the civilians of a nation ravaged by war to truly understand the magnitude of what had happened. I do agree with Faust's idea that counting the dead was a way for a nation in mourning to fully comprehend and move on from the horrible events of the last few years; I do not, however, agree with her idea that it was a way of honoring the dead. Counting the dead during wartime was a military procedure which had little to do with honoring soldiers. "Casualty lists were not compiled because of concern about accounting for the individual lives lost, as the absence of any formal procedure for notifying kin made apparent. Counting the dead had been largely an issue of assessing military resources, of seeing who was left alive to fight. A commander needed to know his military strength" (252). I think this process had less to do with respect for the dead and more to do with military strategy. After the war was won and civilians became involved in the counting, it seemed that enumerating the dead was still not done to honor the fallen, but instead for consolation; people were looking to recover from the terrible war they had just been through, and they needed a way to grasp what had just happened to them. I think that counting the dead was not as much a show of respect for the fallen as it was a comfort for the bereaved.
Response to Ben: I agree with your statement that "By counting the dead it put deaths into a perspective that Americans wouldn't have comprehended otherwise. . ." Numbers provided a perspective for civilians that allowed them to understand just what a great loss they had suffered. I think the numbers also united Americans in a way; no matter which side you were on, you had suffered a tremendous loss.
Counting the dead was such an important task because it was a way "to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and the nation" pg. 250. In other words, it exceeded people's individual sadness and mourning so they realized how huge of a loss the nation was looking at. Counting forced people to stop grieving about the death of (a) family member(s) for a moment and look at the total number of the Dead. It was a way to "grasp the magnitude of sorrow" (pg. 250) that had overtaken the nation; so counting them brought a sense of how big the impact of the war was. I agree with Faust when she explains this because it is exactly why I think counting the dead was so important. People needed to know and understand the enormity of death from the war, and by counting they did (for the most part- although the numbers weren't right).
Response to Kristina- It is true that counting the dead was to respect them, but it wasn't just to do that. It was to give Americans a sense of closure. The war was over and the only thing left to do besides grieve was to actually realize how big the number of deaths was. Couting was for the American people to see actually how many people had died, and not only they had been affected.
Regimental commanders counted to tell the story of how well their unit had stood and to be remembered among those whose losses, thus whose courage, was greatest.(pg.259) Counting the dead was crucial and gave Americans just the perspective on the numbers of lives lost. I agree with Faust in that counting the dead was a way for the nation mourn and move on, and to accept that what has happened over the past years is a tragedy but yet we must go forward. But it too is in no way an honor to the deceased. Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to dead.(pg.250) Faust believed that counting the dead allowed Americans to really see whole picture of death and allowed americans to grieve accordingly.
In response to Ben I agree with you in that numbers helped people understand the magnitude of death that was suffered during the war. But yet no matter what side you were on a great loss of life was suffered. I don't think we will ever know the exact number of lives lost.
"States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain." (pg. 259) Although honoring the dead by identifying them was attempted, identifying every fallen soldier was nearly impossible. To make up for this lost effort, the bodies were counted. This gave families of soldiers a sense of peace that they were not the only family without an identified soldier. Although identifying soldiers was difficult, we did not fail at it. "...graveyard for 2,494 Confederate soldiers.... Eight hundred twenty-nine of these bodies remained unknown and were buried together in a common mound surrounded by 1,679 named graves." (pg. 243) This quote shows how the people of the South, women mostly, succeeded in counting the bodies but also got very far in identifying them. I believe we did a great job in honoring our soldiers and supporting their families as much as possible.
I agree with Faust on this topic because so many families lost loved ones, but their hearts were not broken after being able to identify their family members. Even if they did not know where their loved ones were, they knew that they were somewhere out there amoung the thounsands of counted bodies which remained as a consoling idea to the mourning families.
Faust believed that naming the dead was an impossible task, so to count the dead was as way of respecting the soldiers that died. It also "demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy.” (259 pg) I agree with Faust. Since naming and giving each soldier a proper burial with tombstone was impossible to do, the next best thing is to count the dead. This showed how much each side believed in their ideas. This helped families understand that they were not the only ones in mourning, too. The overall number showed the true side of war.
I agree with you. To count the soldiers respected them by making them "a part of a list, part of something larger." Even though we don't know every soldier's name that died in the war, they are still honored because their sacrifice showed what they believed in. They are now forever remembered for their fight. They are are something bigger than just one death, they were reminders of freedom.
In response to Rachel A Immediately after the war had ended I don’t think anyone had realized exactly how many people they had lost. Hundreds of thousands of men risked their life’s fighting for what they believed was right and many didn’t live. That is why I agree with Rachel when she says “Counting honored all the soldiers that were not identified.” If they fought for their country and cannot be identified I think they still deserved to be honored. They sacrificed their lives for their country if they hadn’t the outcome may have been different.
Counting the dead became very important during the Civil War. "In face of the inadequacy of words, counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend induvidual bereavement in order ti grapple with a larger meaning of loss for society ans nation. Counting helped shift focus from induvidual to total, from death to Dead." (pg. 150) This quote explains why the counting was so important. Numbers actually gave the people perspective on how many lives were really lost during the war. Also by counting the dead it was a way of honoring them, i think that this is a little strange but in a way i guess it makes sense if you think about the soldiers feeling like they were part of something and not alone in fighting for their beliefs. I agree with Faust that counting was important, this gave all a realization of the magnitude of the war and at the same time honoring the soldiers.
In Response to David White: I agree with your post. I think that giving numbers may have also "demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy.” (259 pg)That makes sense and I hadnt thought so much about that. Also, I'm sure it helped many to know they were not alone in mourning and that many fathers and sons and brothers and uncles had died the same way as their loved one had.
"Counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war."250 Americans sought the answer to the final cost of the war. The estimate of the total dead was 618,000 "but remained far from establishing a definitive count."259 The specificity, rather than the accuracy, of these totals attracted "Americans seeking consolation in the comprehensive and comprehensible character of numbers." Americans "counted to establish the dimensions of the war's sacrifice and the price of freedom."260 I agree with this assertion because they counted to realize the true price of freedom and unity.
Faust believed that counting the dead was an important task for a couple of different reasons. "Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead" she stated on page 250. She also stated on page 250 that "counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war." I agree with Faust in this because counting the dead was a way of recognizing those who lost their lives in the war. Like she says "from death to the dead." Counting helped to promote the war's outcome in a precise way by explaining the work of the soldiers while also recognizing the soldiers who lost their lives in battle for their country.
Response to Cameron, I don't agree with your idea of the number of 618,000 deaths telling "the story of ‘how well [their unit had] stood’,” It told “whose courage… was greatest,” A statistic does not really tell any stories. A number of dead can't possibly tell a story because it does not grasped individual deaths. A number of dead also can't really tell whose courage was greatest.
According to Faust, “…counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation. Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to Dead,” (250). Counting showed that many people were facing death, not just a few. Most families had lost someone to the war. Counting showed that all of these families and soldiers were together and a whole. Counting showed how big the war was and how much it affected the country. A Commander used counting to know the military strengths of his own unit and of the enemy’s. “Joseph Jones counted soldiers and their deaths both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy. Regimental commanders counted to tell the story of ‘how well [their unit had] stood’ and to be remembered among those whose losses, and thus whose courage, was greatest.” (259). The North and South used counting to “honor the slain”. Many names were unknown, but when they were counted they were not so unknown. Counting showed a national loss and it showed the “price of freedom and national unity”. There were so many bodies to count and “Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about the war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost,” (260). Counting was strong during the war for Commanders to know their numbers and their enemies’ numbers, but after the war it was more important. I agree with Faust that counting helped to give the nation unity. It showed that so many people had lost family members, but they were not alone. It also helped to give unity between the North and the South because both sides lost so many to the war. Counting also was important to honor the dead. Since so many were left unknown without a name, being counted, in a way, gave the soldier a name. It also showed a total of numbers that helps give everybody and idea of how huge the Civil War really was.
In response to Justine: I agree with you. Counting recognized and honored the people who had lost their lives to war. Counting also did “promote the war’s outcome” like you said. It showed the price for freedom and unity. I think that counting was very important too, because it helped to unite the North and South a little bit better by showing the total deaths and how both sides lost so many.
Faust took a very unique point of view in looking at why counting the dead was such an important task. One of many reasons is that for many decades past, it brought people back to what the country was really fighting for; the north for diplomacy and order, the south for a protection of a life style and a belief. These men who died to serve these purposes literally gave every thing they had for their beliefs. Faust, among many others, believes that the counting, as well as naming and burying, sort of gave honorable mentions to the rest of America. When people of the nearby and also far away future look at these large numbers of casualties, they can remember that there was a time when people fought and died for what they believed in, not just for whatever everyone else is doing. Faust is righteous in her believing that the counting of the dead was imperative to the current America and for many generations of a nation to come.
I agree with him that people came to realize the true price of freedom. The term," freedom isn't free" is literally expressed with the many numbers that are shown. Yet numbers can't begin to express what was put into this war. A document alone cannot determine what struggles these men went through. Only they and the family member can describe the pain and suffering of this four year tragedy. While numbers help to get a grasp of the picture of what really happened during this war, it does nothing but sum it up.
I agree with you for the most part. However, I do not agree with you when you say that counting the dead does not honor the dead. I think it does for the most part. It seems kind of awkward but the soldiers fought for a reason. That reason was to stand up for what they thought was right for their country. They were willing to serve their country even if that meant dying for their country. It was important for soldiers to be counted because it let them know of the war's outcome. Without the war's outcome, fighting in a war would be practically meaningless. It almost gave the soldiers honor for the dead to be counted so that the war's outcome could stand through the disturbing efforts of the soldiers who fought.
Counting the dead is important for many reasons. "How many homes have been made desolate,' a young South Carolina women had demanded in 1863, seeking not just count of the dead but an accounting for deaths impact."(250) This is true but Faust believed that counting the dead is honnering them because if yo9u couldnt name all that died at least you knew how many did die. Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be."(260) I agree with Faust because its good to know how many died fighting for thier country.
I agree with Hank that its important to know the wars outcome by counting the dead but also to reconize how many people died. People didnt just count the dead for the wars outcome but to honor thos who could not be named by counting them as someone who fought and died for their country.
"Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size and cataclysm and its human cost," (pg. 260). According to Faust, counting the dead was an important task because it helped Americans realize the size of the war, and how many sacrifices were made. Even the future may look back and know how large the war affected the nation, just by the numbers. Also, every number includes a soldier that contributed and risked his life, whether his name was known or unknown. "Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be," (pg. 260). I agree with Faust's assertion because every soldier that died in the Civil War made history. Anybody can look back by the number of deaths and tell that the Civil War played an important role of this nation. Every soldier counts.
According to Faust,the “...North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain."(page 259) Although both sides had tried to identify each soldier it became too impossible of a task to complete. So, to honor the nameless dead, the North and South decided to count the fallen soldiers. The soldiers in the South were counted "...both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy."(page 259) For both sides, counting the dead was a way for Americans to realize the devastating effect the war had on their nation.
I agree with Faust's assertion because instead of giving up on naming the dead, America found another solution of respecting each and every soldier that had fought for their beliefs. The Civil War made an immense impact on the United States and set an example for America to honor their dead in the future.
I agree that every soldier counts. You explained, "...every number includes a soldier that contributed and risked his life, whether his name was known or unknown." Every single soldier played a part in this time in history and that's why each side worked so hard to identify or at least number, because they realized how hard every soldier worked. Great post.
I completely agree with you when you said "Counting the dead was a way for Americans to realize the devastating effect the war had on their nation." The numbers did show how much suffering and deaths there were and I think you explained that very well. Although naming the dead was basically impossible, I liked how you explained that, "...instead of giving up on naming the dead, America found another solution of respecting each and every soldier..." that was very well put. Overall, great post and I agree with everything you said.
It is important to count the dead because you may not be able to name every single person who died. But, even if you can't give them a name, it is important to honor them to the best of your ablility. I agree with Faust, because if someone were to die in a war unnamed, they still deserve to be honored as much as someone who was identified.
I think you put it very well when you said "every soldier counts." You may not be able to give every dead soldier a name, but that doesn't mean they didn't die. It doesn't mean that they didn't fight in the war for what they believed in. They still fought and still gave their life for the war, even if they weren't identified.
I believe it is very important to count the dead for both historical and remembrance reasons. As far as historical it is good to know the numbers so we wont forget how many men died to keep this country together and also to honor those who did die. Also remembrance even if they weren't identified at least they were accounted for. So yes i do agree with Faust counting the dead was very important.
I agree with you when you say "Although both sides had tried to identify each soldier it became too impossible of a task to complete. So, to honor the nameless dead, the North and South decided to count the fallen soldiers" even though they weren't named the were remembered. I believe it is most respectable thing to do in situation.
I do agree with her assertion, to a point. I think that it is important to note that X number of people died in service to the country. Counting the dead painted a large picture of the struggle that the whole nation was effected by. It also, made all of the dead equal it disregarded rank and just gave everyone the same amount of respect. However, I think that when you group all the dead together it lessens the importance of the individual combatant.
I agree with you that the counting of the dead show the effect that this war had on the entire nation. It’s also good that you mentioned how the Civil War set an expectation for how Americans should treat their soldiers in future wars.
According to Faust, counting the dead was an important task. This is because "Counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war."(250) Naming all the dead was a nearly impossible task. Counting was not much easier but it is the closest they could get to honoring all the dead. The numbers of the dead could also tell people things that other wise could be incomprehensible. I agree with her assertion because, without the counts, it would be hard to image exactly how horrible the war was.
Jonah-According to the author... counting the dead was imortant to determain the cost of freedom and national unity. They counted to pretend they had control of the aftermath and situation. Well as unlike it is of me to quote the author when there are nearly a hundred people bloging about the same page of text in a book I just must agree with Faust "They counted, too,because there were just so many bodies to count(260)". That is very simply put or in other terms, why not count? I agree all these are true reason for counting. I count everything I see I can't help it. From people sitting in a line to blogs I have left to do I always know. After this one it is 5. That is why I agree with Faust
Jonah- in response to Steven Simpson: I agree with what you said and I really like the comment about a number is just a number. Noone has rank or side in a number they all have the same respect and fate.
Faust believes that counted the dead honored them and the role they had to play in the war. And I do believe with her because it showed the magnitude of the war and it proved to the people whether or not their soldier’s deaths were worth it.
Counting the dead was very important to Faust and myself because, through numbering the dead and wounded, one "might be able to grasp the entirety of so many dead and communicate the enormity of war's toll." (pg 259) In other words, without an accurate number representing those killed in the Civil War, the importance of appreciating and even learning from it is lost. For one to note the relevance of a War, one must see the scale and affects of it. The predominant affect of a war is death, for almost all wars create this result, no matter who wins or loses. If a number is unimaginable, such as some statistics of the war, then it becomes all the more thought-provoking. In order to prevent a repeat of such wars, a country must learn from the affects of the war through such thought.
I agree with your opinion on counting. It gives more significance to each individual and is a way of honoring them. One can look back and see how every dead warrior fought for a purpose and that now that one of those purposes is achieved, our nation is a better place. There is a power that only numbers hold; one of awe and wonder but also of stern instruction.
In response to Nicole: I agree with you about why the counting needed to be done. But it made the people with lost ones mourn even more. Which was a terrible thing to do because that's practically all they did after the way. But it didn't to be done in order to grasp as big of a situation as the Civil War's casualties.
"Counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war."(250) Naming all the dead was a nearly impossible task. Counting was not much easier but it is the closest they could get to honoring all the dead. In the south, soldiers were counted "...both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy."(259) Counting was important to them. It told "...the story of 'how well [their unit had] stood'..."(259) The numbers could explain things to the people that would otherwise be incomprehensible. The “...North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain."(259) Counting showed respect to the dead. I do agree with Faust's assertion. There were people who never knew what happened to their loved ones. The numbers gave the people in both the north and the south some comfort. "Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be."(260)
ReplyDeleteAccording to Faust, counting the dead was important because it showed a respect for those who had given their lives for their country. “States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain. A name upon a list was like a name upon a grave, a repository of memory, a gesture of immortality for those who had made the supreme sacrifice”. [259] I do agree with Faust. Because of what these men gave for their country, all that many of them received in return was a grave marked: Unknown. “and most important, how many gravestones carried ‘the significant word Unknown’”. [262] The rosters at least allowed the men to be recognized for what they had given for their country even if they had not received a properly marked grave, their name will be able to live for many years to come.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Jamie Baumgarten
ReplyDeleteJamie touched a very important point in her answer to this question. Why were the numbers a comfort to the thousands of women who had lost their relations? Jamie stated that “The numbers gave the people in both the North and the South some comfort”. This was in fact what Reverend Cross was speaking about in his sermon on mourning. “Sympathy divides the sorrow, and leaves but half the load”. [166] Though these women may have lived across the country from each other, they still had the comfort in knowing that they were not alone in suffering the loss of a missing loved one. They knew that though they may be alone in their home, other women were suffering the same loss. The numbers showed that.
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ReplyDeleteAccording to Faust, there are several reasons that counting the dead was so important. She said that, “Joseph Jones counted soldiers and their deaths both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy.” [pg. 259] Some Regimental Commanders “counted to tell the story of “how well [their unit had] stood” and to be remembered among those whose losses, and thus whose courage was greatest.” [pg. 259] I agree with Faust when she states both of these comments. I think that Joseph Jones’ reason for counting the slain is a good one. Many Confederate soldiers could not be identified, thus if people counted them as dead, they sort of got part of that identity back. As she said here, “A name upon a list was like a name upon a grave…” Identity is also a large part of the Regimental Commanders reasoning for counting the dead. By counting the dead in regiments, it gave the soldiers that did not get identified, an identity. It made it so citizens knew who fought for which regiment. I strongly agree with Faust and her comments here.
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ReplyDeleteIn response to McKenzie Hamilton:
ReplyDeleteI agree with McKenzie’s comment as stated in this quote, “I do agree with Faust. Because of what these men gave for their country, all that many of them received in return was a grave marked: Unknown. “and most important, how many gravestones carried ‘the significant word Unknown.’” [262] The rosters at least allowed the men to be recognized for what they had given for their country even if they had not received a properly marked grave, their name will be able to live for many years to come.” She makes an excellent point in saying that even if a grave was marked “unknown,” the person lying there still could have an identity, and be remembered on the total death list. It had to be comforting for a family to see their fallen soldier’s name on this list. It offered closure to them, and made sure that the hero that died for his country, was never forgotten.
Faust thinks that counting the dead was such an important task because it showed how much each side suffered, losing many. It showed how out numbered the Confederates were and how lucky the North was in not losing as many soldiers as the South. I agree with Faust because I think it would help when they announced the deceased for each side, because it would tell the widows they are not alone and other women are suffering the same way they are.
ReplyDeleteCounting was an important task for many reasons. Counting could “demonstrate southern valor” and “explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy.” Regimental commanders counted to tell the story of how well [their unit had] stood and to be remembered among those whose losses, and thus courage, was greatest.” (p. 259) “They counted to establish the dimensions of the war’s sacrifice and the price of freedom and national unity. They counted because numbers offered an illusion of certitude and control in the aftermath of a conflict that had transformed the apparent limits of human brutality. They counted, too, because there were just so many bodies to count. Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost.” (p. 260) Also, “States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain. A name upon a list was like a name upon a grave, a repository of memory, a gesture of immortality…” (p. 259) I agree with her assertion: counting is important. It shows the true scale of the war and how both sides suffered enormously. When an unknown soldier is counted among the dead, the soldier is not simply a decaying object in a field anymore. He has become a part of a list, part of something larger. The soldier may not have a reminder dedicated to him, but his name will show what he sacrificed.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Austin Parr
ReplyDeleteI do not really agree with everything you said. How could a number give a person an identity? I think the numbers gave comfort to those at home. Some people never knew what happened to their son and so the numbers helped them let go a little. They would always wonder, but those numbers helped them think maybe their soldier was one of those thousands.
Counting the dead was a way to grasp a loss far too great to comprehend. “ ‘ It is easy to imagine one man killed; or ten men killed… but even… [the veteran] is unable to comprehend the meaning of the one hundred thousand’”(261) soldiers lost. People would go on living their lives after the war knowing the number of dead soldiers, but not understanding that “ these were not cold abstractions but numbers that literally … possessed a human face.” (260) Faust also talks about the unknown soldiers, “ the hundreds of thousands of Civil War dead who remained unnamed could at least be counted. Names might be unknown but numbers need not be.” (259-260). The numbers were a comfort to the people of a torn nation for they were something certain in a world of unthinkable loss.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust that the loss was something that most could not comprehend.
And in trying to make sense of their loss, the number of deaths helped them realize something along the lines of, wow that is like everyone in my whole town, and the town down the road, and the town after that, all dying. It gave them some common knowledge, something to compare their losses to, and maybe begin to understand all that had been lost in that dreadful war.
Counting the dead had many different reasons behind it. Military reasons for counting the dead during the war included knowing a general’s strength as well as their enemy’s. “Counting the dead had been largely an issue of assessing military resources, of seeing who was left alive to fight (252).” However, after the war ended purpose for counting the dead changed. It became documentation to respect and honor the dead. “Joseph Jones counted soldiers and their deaths both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of their hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy (259).” “States in both the North and the South enumerated the dead to honor the slain. A name upon a list was like a name upon a grave, a repository of memory, a gesture of immortality for those who had made the supreme sacrifice (259).” I agree with Faust’s statements made about counting the dead. It honored the fallen who sacrificed themselves for what they believed in. It also respectfully united all the dead; even if their bodies were never recovered they were remembered.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Blake N:
ReplyDelete“They counted because numbers offered an illusion of certitude and control in the aftermath of a conflict that had transformed the apparent limits of human brutality. They counted, too, because there were just so many bodies to count. Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost (260).” I agree with Blake N. that counting the dead not only showed respect but showed the true magnitude and scale of death. This enormous factor affected the whole country leaving no one untouched by the war. The scale was so massive it was almost incomprehensible and was still being calculated well into the 1900’s.
According to Faust, counting the dead was important to show their gratitude to those who had died serving their country. As the numbers of the dead were being counted many "Americans speculated about what the umbers they so eagerly amassed acutally meant. Joseph Jones counted soldiers and their deaths both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy."(159) "States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain." There were many reasons that counting the dead was very important to the nation back then. "They counted to establish the dimensions of the war's sacrifice and the price of freedome and national unity." (160) "Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war." The reason for counting was to solve the problems of understanding. I agree with Faust because even today during a war many people are very interested in the amount of casualties and deaths.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Amber:
ReplyDeleteI agree that a big reason for the numbers was to make everyone feel like they aren't alone. With the big numbers the widows could vent with other widows. Every single person in our nation suffered a loss during that time. I believe at the cost of thousands of soldiers that this event brought our nation together and made it be the nation we are today.
After the war had ended the final death tolls totaled in at 360,222 for the Union army, and around 258,000 for the Confederate army, those numbers are big now, but were even bigger back then. Faust believed that counting the dead was important because it “helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.” (250) She thought counting the dead was important because it made people focus not only on who they knew that died, but everyone who had died in the war. Faust also believed that counting the dead “seemed about the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost.” (260) Numbers provided an understanding to everyone of how much death really happened in the war. I agree with Faust on the importance of counting the dead. I think it was important for Americans at the time to open their eyes to all the destruction they caused, and to stop viewing the war’s deaths as only those who they knew, but instead view the war’s deaths as everyone who had died. By counting the dead it put deaths into a perspective Americans at the time wouldn’t have comprehended otherwise, and allowed them to truly grasp the war’s results.
ReplyDelete"Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead." A death may have created sorrow throughout a community, but a number of deaths multiplied that sorrow across many communities. It provided a means for grasping the broadness of death on such a large scale. Saying that many soldiers died in the war is not nearly as dramatic as saying that over 600,000 soldiers died in the war. When humans are not given an actual number, they naturally tend to think of it as less than it really was. Stating a concrete number can help combat this and allow humans to be able to really grasp what it was like. "Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Evan:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you when you say that counting is a way of honoring the lives of dead soldiers. Counting shows that they did not die alone and they did not die in vain. Soldiers must have been fighting for a worthy cause to lay down their life for it. The cause must have been extremely worthy for 600,000 soldiers to lay down their lives for it. The larger the number, the more noble the cause. Counting the Civil War dead magnified the morality of the cause for which they died.
The question of “How Many?” was not uncommon. The answer was 618,000, yet 618,000 was so much more than a number. It told “the story of ‘how well [their unit had] stood’,” (pg 259). It told “whose courage… was greatest,” (pg 259). Most importantly, it did, for those who dared, allowed man to grasp the numbers. It gave an idea of what really happened and the sorrows that came along with it on a much larger scale. Faust suggested that acknowledgement of their existence was the least that anybody could do to honor the fallen. I think dying for your country is one of the boldest, most honorable things anybody could ever do, and every individual who dies for their country has to be acknowledged, regardless of how many others died with them, and, I agree, counting is the least that anybody could do.
ReplyDeleteThe death toll during the Civil War was so high that it was hard to establish a number. Faust believed, “They counted to establish the dimensions of the war’s sacrifice and the price of freedom and national unity.” (260) Faust believed it was important that America realized how many people died during the Civil War because they could see how much the country had paid for the war not only in money but in humans as well. However it was hard for all the fallen soldiers to be counted and identified. I agree that it was important to count the dead after the war. It gave people then and now a better idea of how much the war cost us. A lot of soldiers risked their life fighting for what they believed was right. No matter what side they were on I think they deserved to be known and honored.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Ben:
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that “it was important for Americans at the time to open their eyes,” and “stop viewing the war’s deaths as only those who they knew, but instead view the war’s deaths as everyone who had died.” People tend to only focus on things that pertain to them, in this case it would be the death of someone in the family. However, it can be helpful to know that thousands of other families are in the same position. It is also valuable in helping Americans understand just how much blood was shed during the war.
“Counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation. Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead. It was not just a count of the dead but an accounting for the death’s impact (250).” Since there were so many people dead, there was sometimes no way even to count them, let alone to give them names. It helped people understand the magnitude of death and how much so many people were willing to give up. Counting the dead also provided a statistic for people to better grasp the amount of loss. “Numbers became a language in which to express and assess battle’s challenge and achievements (253).” Officers during the war also used the numbers as a defense mechanism. They might purposefully undercount the amount of dead to make the enemy more confident, when really, they might be outnumbered. I agree with Faust, but then again I disagree with Faust (saying how significant counting casualties was). I agree with her because if an officer knew he had more than he said he did, he knew he had the higher ground. So counting the dead in that way was a very important strategy. I disagree with her on the significance for the people because a) they are already mourning so why make it worse, and b) they were already in the highest point in mourning, so if you added something more to mourn about, they are already at their highest amount of mourning, so the numbers either roll off their shoulders or just elongate the amount of time spent mourning.
ReplyDelete“Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead.” (250) According to Faust, “counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war.” (250) Decades later, people would want to know how many soldiers gave their life during the war. People needed to understand how many people died because of the war and how this overall affected our country. “Statistics offered more than just the possibility of comprehension. Their provision of seemingly objective knowledge promised a foundation for control n a reality escaping the bounds of the imaginable.” (251) For military reasons, counting would show the strength or weakness of the enemy during the war. However, was the war finished, the numbers showed the overall devastation that war caused. “States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain.” (259) Overall, I agree with all of Faust’s statements relating to the importance of counting the dead. Counting honored all the soldiers that were not identified. Without counting, we may never have known how many soldiers sacrificed their lives for the war.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Rachel Anderson:
ReplyDeleteI agree that “counting honored all soldiers were not identified.” I agree that counting was necessary because if we didn’t, “we may have never known how many soldiers sacrificed their lives for the war.” My only question is why would it be so important for the average civilian to document the number of fatalities? I’m sure that it would be nice to start to get an idea of what really happened, but I don’t think that a number would be the best way to describe the sacrifices that have been made for your country. Honestly, I think that I could’ve gotten along just fine without 618,000 being a part of my education on the Civil War. I understand how it could be useful to the military, but that number is way too big for me to fully understand, and I think it is sort of unnecessary in that context.
Response to Cameron Whiteside:
ReplyDeleteYou asked, "why would it be so important for the average civilian to document the number of fatalities?" I agree with your response that, "I don’t think that a number would be the best way to describe the sacrifices that have been made for your country." But I believe without the identification of soldiers, a number is the only way to fully comprehend how many people gave their life for the Civil War. I also agree that the number, "is way too big for me to fully understand," but without it, would you still comprehend how many people gave their lives?
Response to Kaylie:
ReplyDeleteI agree with the point in your post that humans tend to downsize events when numbers aren’t given. I think naturally humans just don’t picture the bad right away; we try to find the good in everything before looking at the facts. I also think that because of that trait, numbers and counting the dead were of extreme importance after the Civil War. Americans at the time needed a number to fully understand how many deaths occurred. Without a number for the dead, people would have continued their habit of downsizing the bad, and underestimated how many soldiers really did die.
Faust believed it was important to count the dead as a show of respect for the dead soldiers. Although, in those times math was not always taught in school so it was hard for many people. " Americans North and South, in official capacities and as private citizens, proliferated enumerations of the war dead but remained far from establishing a definitive count." (pg 259)I'm not completely sure what to think of Faust's idea of their counting. It may have been a valient effort and I'm sure many civilians were happy to have found their dead loved ones to give them an honorable burial but they never could have completley succeeded not only because of some poor educations but also becuase of the many many many deaths of the war. There was probably many lost bodies, never found in the battlefields.
ReplyDelete"In face of inadequacy of words, counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation." With these words, Faust explains why counting was so important. The people counted because it helped them to understand how much suffering there was, and so they could, even without knowing people, relate to them through their grief. They counted because it helped them to understand the extent of the carnage the war had ravaged. It was easier to count the dead than to try to name the dead. But by counting, they still honored the dead, even if they couldn't name them all. Faust thought it was important an important task to count the dead because it "helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead." People focused less on their individual sorrows and grief, and turned to national grief for all of the dead. I agree with Faust because counting helped people to focus on something other than their own personal grief. Counting also helped the nation understand the severity of losses, as well as how destructive the war was. I think that by counting the dead, the nation understood that we should never have to go throught that kind of suffering again, for any reason. It was important to count, so it wouldn't happen again.
ReplyDeleteResponse to McKenzie:
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that counting showed the dead the respect they needed, even if they couldn't be named. They fought for their country, and died in the process, so they needed to be honored. Even if they couldn't be identified, the graves were still marked with the name "unknown" and their memory continued to live on. I totally agree with you on that one.
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ReplyDeleteFaust asserts that counting the dead was a way to honor slain soldiers - "States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain" (259) - and a way for their families to deal with grief. "A figure might begin to grasp the entirety of so many dead and communicate the enormity of war's toll" (259). Providing numbers was the only way for the civilians of a nation ravaged by war to truly understand the magnitude of what had happened. I do agree with Faust's idea that counting the dead was a way for a nation in mourning to fully comprehend and move on from the horrible events of the last few years; I do not, however, agree with her idea that it was a way of honoring the dead. Counting the dead during wartime was a military procedure which had little to do with honoring soldiers. "Casualty lists were not compiled because of concern about accounting for the individual lives lost, as the absence of any formal procedure for notifying kin made apparent. Counting the dead had been largely an issue of assessing military resources, of seeing who was left alive to fight. A commander needed to know his military strength" (252). I think this process had less to do with respect for the dead and more to do with military strategy. After the war was won and civilians became involved in the counting, it seemed that enumerating the dead was still not done to honor the fallen, but instead for consolation; people were looking to recover from the terrible war they had just been through, and they needed a way to grasp what had just happened to them. I think that counting the dead was not as much a show of respect for the fallen as it was a comfort for the bereaved.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Ben:
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that "By counting the dead it put deaths into a perspective that Americans wouldn't have comprehended otherwise. . ." Numbers provided a perspective for civilians that allowed them to understand just what a great loss they had suffered. I think the numbers also united Americans in a way; no matter which side you were on, you had suffered a tremendous loss.
Counting the dead was such an important task because it was a way "to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and the nation" pg. 250. In other words, it exceeded people's individual sadness and mourning so they realized how huge of a loss the nation was looking at. Counting forced people to stop grieving about the death of (a) family member(s) for a moment and look at the total number of the Dead. It was a way to "grasp the magnitude of sorrow" (pg. 250) that had overtaken the nation; so counting them brought a sense of how big the impact of the war was. I agree with Faust when she explains this because it is exactly why I think counting the dead was so important. People needed to know and understand the enormity of death from the war, and by counting they did (for the most part- although the numbers weren't right).
ReplyDeleteResponse to Kristina-
ReplyDeleteIt is true that counting the dead was to respect them, but it wasn't just to do that. It was to give Americans a sense of closure. The war was over and the only thing left to do besides grieve was to actually realize how big the number of deaths was. Couting was for the American people to see actually how many people had died, and not only they had been affected.
Regimental commanders counted to tell the story of how well their unit had stood and to be remembered among those whose losses, thus whose courage, was greatest.(pg.259) Counting the dead was crucial and gave Americans just the perspective on the numbers of lives lost. I agree with Faust in that counting the dead was a way for the nation mourn and move on, and to accept that what has happened over the past years is a tragedy but yet we must go forward. But it too is in no way an honor to the deceased. Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to dead.(pg.250) Faust believed that counting the dead allowed Americans to really see whole picture of death and allowed americans to grieve accordingly.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Ben
ReplyDeleteI agree with you in that numbers helped people understand the magnitude of death that was suffered during the war. But yet no matter what side you were on a great loss of life was suffered. I don't think we will ever know the exact number of lives lost.
"States in both North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain." (pg. 259) Although honoring the dead by identifying them was attempted, identifying every fallen soldier was nearly impossible. To make up for this lost effort, the bodies were counted. This gave families of soldiers a sense of peace that they were not the only family without an identified soldier. Although identifying soldiers was difficult, we did not fail at it. "...graveyard for 2,494 Confederate soldiers.... Eight hundred twenty-nine of these bodies remained unknown and were buried together in a common mound surrounded by 1,679 named graves." (pg. 243) This quote shows how the people of the South, women mostly, succeeded in counting the bodies but also got very far in identifying them. I believe we did a great job in honoring our soldiers and supporting their families as much as possible.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust on this topic because so many families lost loved ones, but their hearts were not broken after being able to identify their family members. Even if they did not know where their loved ones were, they knew that they were somewhere out there amoung the thounsands of counted bodies which remained as a consoling idea to the mourning families.
Faust believed that naming the dead was an impossible task, so to count the dead was as way of respecting the soldiers that died. It also "demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy.” (259 pg) I agree with Faust. Since naming and giving each soldier a proper burial with tombstone was impossible to do, the next best thing is to count the dead. This showed how much each side believed in their ideas. This helped families understand that they were not the only ones in mourning, too. The overall number showed the true side of war.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Blake:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. To count the soldiers respected them by making them "a part of a list, part of something larger." Even though we don't know every soldier's name that died in the war, they are still honored because their sacrifice showed what they believed in. They are now forever remembered for their fight. They are are something bigger than just one death, they were reminders of freedom.
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ReplyDeleteIn response to Rachel A
ReplyDeleteImmediately after the war had ended I don’t think anyone had realized exactly how many people they had lost. Hundreds of thousands of men risked their life’s fighting for what they believed was right and many didn’t live. That is why I agree with Rachel when she says “Counting honored all the soldiers that were not identified.” If they fought for their country and cannot be identified I think they still deserved to be honored. They sacrificed their lives for their country if they hadn’t the outcome may have been different.
Counting the dead became very important during the Civil War. "In face of the inadequacy of words, counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend induvidual bereavement in order ti grapple with a larger meaning of loss for society ans nation. Counting helped shift focus from induvidual to total, from death to Dead." (pg. 150) This quote explains why the counting was so important. Numbers actually gave the people perspective on how many lives were really lost during the war. Also by counting the dead it was a way of honoring them, i think that this is a little strange but in a way i guess it makes sense if you think about the soldiers feeling like they were part of something and not alone in fighting for their beliefs. I agree with Faust that counting was important, this gave all a realization of the magnitude of the war and at the same time honoring the soldiers.
ReplyDeleteIn Response to David White:
ReplyDeleteI agree with your post. I think that giving numbers may have also "demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy.” (259 pg)That makes sense and I hadnt thought so much about that. Also, I'm sure it helped many to know they were not alone in mourning and that many fathers and sons and brothers and uncles had died the same way as their loved one had.
"Counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war."250 Americans sought the answer to the final cost of the war. The estimate of the total dead was 618,000 "but remained far from establishing a definitive count."259 The specificity, rather than the accuracy, of these totals attracted "Americans seeking consolation in the comprehensive and comprehensible character of numbers." Americans "counted to establish the dimensions of the war's sacrifice and the price of freedom."260 I agree with this assertion because they counted to realize the true price of freedom and unity.
ReplyDeleteFaust believed that counting the dead was an important task for a couple of different reasons. "Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to the Dead" she stated on page 250. She also stated on page 250 that "counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war." I agree with Faust in this because counting the dead was a way of recognizing those who lost their lives in the war. Like she says "from death to the dead." Counting helped to promote the war's outcome in a precise way by explaining the work of the soldiers while also recognizing the soldiers who lost their lives in battle for their country.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Cameron,
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with your idea of the number of 618,000 deaths telling "the story of ‘how well [their unit had] stood’,” It told “whose courage… was greatest,” A statistic does not really tell any stories. A number of dead can't possibly tell a story because it does not grasped individual deaths. A number of dead also can't really tell whose courage was greatest.
According to Faust, “…counting seemed a way to grasp the magnitude of sorrow, to transcend individual bereavement in order to grapple with the larger meaning of loss for society and nation. Counting helped shift focus from individual to total, from death to Dead,” (250). Counting showed that many people were facing death, not just a few. Most families had lost someone to the war. Counting showed that all of these families and soldiers were together and a whole. Counting showed how big the war was and how much it affected the country. A Commander used counting to know the military strengths of his own unit and of the enemy’s. “Joseph Jones counted soldiers and their deaths both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy. Regimental commanders counted to tell the story of ‘how well [their unit had] stood’ and to be remembered among those whose losses, and thus whose courage, was greatest.” (259). The North and South used counting to “honor the slain”. Many names were unknown, but when they were counted they were not so unknown. Counting showed a national loss and it showed the “price of freedom and national unity”. There were so many bodies to count and “Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about the war: the very size of the cataclysm and its human cost,” (260).
ReplyDeleteCounting was strong during the war for Commanders to know their numbers and their enemies’ numbers, but after the war it was more important. I agree with Faust that counting helped to give the nation unity. It showed that so many people had lost family members, but they were not alone. It also helped to give unity between the North and the South because both sides lost so many to the war. Counting also was important to honor the dead. Since so many were left unknown without a name, being counted, in a way, gave the soldier a name. It also showed a total of numbers that helps give everybody and idea of how huge the Civil War really was.
In response to Justine:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. Counting recognized and honored the people who had lost their lives to war. Counting also did “promote the war’s outcome” like you said. It showed the price for freedom and unity. I think that counting was very important too, because it helped to unite the North and South a little bit better by showing the total deaths and how both sides lost so many.
hank hammond
ReplyDeleteFaust took a very unique point of view in looking at why counting the dead was such an important task. One of many reasons is that for many decades past, it brought people back to what the country was really fighting for; the north for diplomacy and order, the south for a protection of a life style and a belief. These men who died to serve these purposes literally gave every thing they had for their beliefs. Faust, among many others, believes that the counting, as well as naming and burying, sort of gave honorable mentions to the rest of America. When people of the nearby and also far away future look at these large numbers of casualties, they can remember that there was a time when people fought and died for what they believed in, not just for whatever everyone else is doing. Faust is righteous in her believing that the counting of the dead was imperative to the current America and for many generations of a nation to come.
Hank Hammond
ReplyDeleteIn response to Orion
I agree with him that people came to realize the true price of freedom. The term," freedom isn't free" is literally expressed with the many numbers that are shown. Yet numbers can't begin to express what was put into this war. A document alone cannot determine what struggles these men went through. Only they and the family member can describe the pain and suffering of this four year tragedy. While numbers help to get a grasp of the picture of what really happened during this war, it does nothing but sum it up.
In response to Kinsey:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you for the most part. However, I do not agree with you when you say that counting the dead does not honor the dead. I think it does for the most part. It seems kind of awkward but the soldiers fought for a reason. That reason was to stand up for what they thought was right for their country. They were willing to serve their country even if that meant dying for their country. It was important for soldiers to be counted because it let them know of the war's outcome. Without the war's outcome, fighting in a war would be practically meaningless. It almost gave the soldiers honor for the dead to be counted so that the war's outcome could stand through the disturbing efforts of the soldiers who fought.
Counting the dead is important for many reasons. "How many homes have been made desolate,' a young South Carolina women had demanded in 1863, seeking not just count of the dead but an accounting for deaths impact."(250) This is true but Faust believed that counting the dead is honnering them because if yo9u couldnt name all that died at least you knew how many did die. Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be."(260)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust because its good to know how many died fighting for thier country.
In responce to Hank
ReplyDeleteI agree with Hank that its important to know the wars outcome by counting the dead but also to reconize how many people died. People didnt just count the dead for the wars outcome but to honor thos who could not be named by counting them as someone who fought and died for their country.
"Numbers seemed the only way to capture what was most dramatically new about this war: the very size and cataclysm and its human cost," (pg. 260). According to Faust, counting the dead was an important task because it helped Americans realize the size of the war, and how many sacrifices were made. Even the future may look back and know how large the war affected the nation, just by the numbers. Also, every number includes a soldier that contributed and risked his life, whether his name was known or unknown. "Names might remain unknown, but numbers need not be," (pg. 260). I agree with Faust's assertion because every soldier that died in the Civil War made history. Anybody can look back by the number of deaths and tell that the Civil War played an important role of this nation. Every soldier counts.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Faust,the “...North and South enumerated the dead to honor the slain."(page 259) Although both sides had tried to identify each soldier it became too impossible of a task to complete. So, to honor the nameless dead, the North and South decided to count the fallen soldiers. The soldiers in the South were counted "...both to demonstrate southern valor and to explain the defeat of the hopelessly outnumbered Confederacy."(page 259) For both sides, counting the dead was a way for Americans to realize the devastating effect the war had on their nation.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust's assertion because instead of giving up on naming the dead, America found another solution of respecting each and every soldier that had fought for their beliefs. The Civil War made an immense impact on the United States and set an example for America to honor their dead in the future.
In response to leephan:
ReplyDeleteI agree that every soldier counts. You explained, "...every number includes a soldier that contributed and risked his life, whether his name was known or unknown." Every single soldier played a part in this time in history and that's why each side worked so hard to identify or at least number, because they realized how hard every soldier worked. Great post.
In response to Sophia S.:
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you when you said "Counting the dead was a way for Americans to realize the devastating effect the war had on their nation." The numbers did show how much suffering and deaths there were and I think you explained that very well. Although naming the dead was basically impossible, I liked how you explained that, "...instead of giving up on naming the dead, America found another solution of respecting each and every soldier..." that was very well put. Overall, great post and I agree with everything you said.
It is important to count the dead because you may not be able to name every single person who died. But, even if you can't give them a name, it is important to honor them to the best of your ablility.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Faust, because if someone were to die in a war unnamed, they still deserve to be honored as much as someone who was identified.
In response to leephan:
ReplyDeleteI think you put it very well when you said "every soldier counts." You may not be able to give every dead soldier a name, but that doesn't mean they didn't die. It doesn't mean that they didn't fight in the war for what they believed in. They still fought and still gave their life for the war, even if they weren't identified.
I believe it is very important to count the dead for both historical and remembrance reasons. As far as historical it is good to know the numbers so we wont forget how many men died to keep this country together and also to honor those who did die. Also remembrance even if they weren't identified at least they were accounted for. So yes i do agree with Faust counting the dead was very important.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Sophia,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you when you say "Although both sides had tried to identify each soldier it became too impossible of a task to complete. So, to honor the nameless dead, the North and South decided to count the fallen soldiers" even though they weren't named the were remembered. I believe it is most respectable thing to do in situation.
I do agree with her assertion, to a point. I think that it is important to note that X number of people died in service to the country. Counting the dead painted a large picture of the struggle that the whole nation was effected by. It also, made all of the dead equal it disregarded rank and just gave everyone the same amount of respect. However, I think that when you group all the dead together it lessens the importance of the individual combatant.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Sophia Shetterly
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the counting of the dead show the effect that this war had on the entire nation. It’s also good that you mentioned how the Civil War set an expectation for how Americans should treat their soldiers in future wars.
According to Faust, counting the dead was an important task. This is because "Counting had grown in importance in the decades that preceded the war."(250) Naming all the dead was a nearly impossible task. Counting was not much easier but it is the closest they could get to honoring all the dead. The numbers of the dead could also tell people things that other wise could be incomprehensible. I agree with her assertion because, without the counts, it would be hard to image exactly how horrible the war was.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Jamie:
ReplyDeleteI agree with all that you have said. I like how you said that counting showed a lot of respect to the dead.
Jonah-According to the author... counting the dead was imortant to determain the cost of freedom and national unity. They counted to pretend they had control of the aftermath and situation. Well as unlike it is of me to quote the author when there are nearly a hundred people bloging about the same page of text in a book I just must agree with Faust "They counted, too,because there were just so many bodies to count(260)". That is very simply put or in other terms, why not count? I agree all these are true reason for counting. I count everything I see I can't help it. From people sitting in a line to blogs I have left to do I always know. After this one it is 5. That is why I agree with Faust
ReplyDeleteJonah- in response to Steven Simpson:
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you said and I really like the comment about a number is just a number. Noone has rank or side in a number they all have the same respect and fate.
Faust believes that counted the dead honored them and the role they had to play in the war. And I do believe with her because it showed the magnitude of the war and it proved to the people whether or not their soldier’s deaths were worth it.
ReplyDeleteCounting the dead was very important to Faust and myself because, through numbering the dead and wounded, one "might be able to grasp the entirety of so many dead and communicate the enormity of war's toll." (pg 259) In other words, without an accurate number representing those killed in the Civil War, the importance of appreciating and even learning from it is lost. For one to note the relevance of a War, one must see the scale and affects of it. The predominant affect of a war is death, for almost all wars create this result, no matter who wins or loses. If a number is unimaginable, such as some statistics of the war, then it becomes all the more thought-provoking. In order to prevent a repeat of such wars, a country must learn from the affects of the war through such thought.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Leepan,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your opinion on counting. It gives more significance to each individual and is a way of honoring them. One can look back and see how every dead warrior fought for a purpose and that now that one of those purposes is achieved, our nation is a better place. There is a power that only numbers hold; one of awe and wonder but also of stern instruction.
In response to Nicole:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about why the counting needed to be done. But it made the people with lost ones mourn even more. Which was a terrible thing to do because that's practically all they did after the way. But it didn't to be done in order to grasp as big of a situation as the Civil War's casualties.